Two Weapon Fighting Pathfinder
Once upon a time, monks were the masters of the multiple attack routine. Through most of AD&D, the best a two weapon fighter could ever hope for was three attacks per round, versus the 4 attacks awarded to the revised 1e and the (very late appearing) 2e monk. Even in 3.0, the monk was toe-to-toe with the two weapon fighter (Flurry granted the same number of attacks as Improved 2WF), but as more 2WF feats were added, rangers and fighter/tempests pulled way ahead of the monk in terms of maximum attacks per round.
With 3.5, it's actually become worse - now the monk tops out at 5 attacks even when using the Flurry of Blows, and Greater 2WF is core, making 7 attacks per round the core maximum for a two-weapon fighter (until epic levels, when Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting makes it 8). Now I'm well aware that the monk is not a 'pure fighter type' class, but I do happen to be rather nostalgic about multiple attacks being the monk's schitck. It's a funny story as to why -- the first time I played through Final Fantasy I, my monk killed Chaos in one round with 20x hits for 2002 damage!
I just always liked monks being the multiple attackers, so I started thinking of ways to keep things balanced while letting the monk surpass or at least equal a two-weapon fighter in number of attacks per round. The first idea was to let monks make off-hand attacks with unarmed strikes, and make use of the same two-weapon fighting feats to increase their attacks. This was workable, but turned out a bit on the complicated side. My next idea was this: create feats that are analogous to Improved 2WF and Greater 2WF, but call them Improved FoB and Greater FoB.
It will take some testing to see whether or not they're fine as-is or if they require an attack penalty, since the Flurry of Blows is generally stronger than Two-Weapon Fighting already.
Improved Flurry of Blows [Special]
Prerequisites: Flurry of Blows attack bonus +6
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you recieve one extra attack at a -5 penalty to hit. With this feat, the monk's Flurry of Blows attack routine is as follows:
Greater Flurry of Blows [Special]
Prerequisites: Improved Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Blows attack bonus +11
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you gain an extra attack at a -10 penalty. With this feat, the monk's Flurry of Blows progression is as follows:
Perfect Flurry of Blows [Epic]
Prerequisites: Improved Flurry of Blows, Greater Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Blows attack bonus +16
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you gain two extra attacks, one at a -5 penalty and one at a -10 penalty. A 21st level monk using the Flurry of Blows attacks at +16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6/+6.
Now, given the fact that all these bonus attacks can potentally use the monk's unarmed damage and full strength bonus, I need a way to weaken these feats somewhat. An attack penalty that applies to all attacks might be appropriate, but it complicates things, because it means that a monk's Flurry attack bonus could be lower with the feat than without, and I'm not sure I want that. So, I'm open to ideas.
With 3.5, it's actually become worse - now the monk tops out at 5 attacks even when using the Flurry of Blows, and Greater 2WF is core, making 7 attacks per round the core maximum for a two-weapon fighter (until epic levels, when Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting makes it 8). Now I'm well aware that the monk is not a 'pure fighter type' class, but I do happen to be rather nostalgic about multiple attacks being the monk's schitck. It's a funny story as to why -- the first time I played through Final Fantasy I, my monk killed Chaos in one round with 20x hits for 2002 damage!
I just always liked monks being the multiple attackers, so I started thinking of ways to keep things balanced while letting the monk surpass or at least equal a two-weapon fighter in number of attacks per round. The first idea was to let monks make off-hand attacks with unarmed strikes, and make use of the same two-weapon fighting feats to increase their attacks. This was workable, but turned out a bit on the complicated side. My next idea was this: create feats that are analogous to Improved 2WF and Greater 2WF, but call them Improved FoB and Greater FoB.
It will take some testing to see whether or not they're fine as-is or if they require an attack penalty, since the Flurry of Blows is generally stronger than Two-Weapon Fighting already.
Improved Flurry of Blows [Special]
Prerequisites: Flurry of Blows attack bonus +6
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you recieve one extra attack at a -5 penalty to hit. With this feat, the monk's Flurry of Blows attack routine is as follows:
Greater Flurry of Blows [Special]
Prerequisites: Improved Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Blows attack bonus +11
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you gain an extra attack at a -10 penalty. With this feat, the monk's Flurry of Blows progression is as follows:
Perfect Flurry of Blows [Epic]
Prerequisites: Improved Flurry of Blows, Greater Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Blows attack bonus +16
Benefit: When using the Flurry of Blows, you gain two extra attacks, one at a -5 penalty and one at a -10 penalty. A 21st level monk using the Flurry of Blows attacks at +16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6/+6.
Now, given the fact that all these bonus attacks can potentally use the monk's unarmed damage and full strength bonus, I need a way to weaken these feats somewhat. An attack penalty that applies to all attacks might be appropriate, but it complicates things, because it means that a monk's Flurry attack bonus could be lower with the feat than without, and I'm not sure I want that. So, I'm open to ideas.
Pathfinder Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Hey forum-lurkers,
We have two fighters in our adventure league game at the local comic store. One is dual wielding melee weapons and the other is dual wielding crossbows.
I've seen the erratta regarding how the loading of hand crossbows is handled. That's all very clear.
However, I am unsure about how the damage should be calculated.
A dual wielding meleer needs the the dual-wielding fighting style and duel wielding feat to gain their modifier with offhand damage.
A hand crossbow build needs crossbow expert as a feat, but does not need the dual wielding fighting style to gain their dex modifier to damage?
So does that mean that the dual wielding hand crossbow expert build is overall better due to higher hit rate with the archery fighting style?
I guess it works like this.
Crossbow expert + archery fighting style:
+2 to hit
Dex to onhand and offhand damage.
Better range.
Other feat bonuses.
Dual wielding fighting style + dual wielding feat:
+1 ac
Dex or STR to onhand and offhand damage.
Can now use 1d8 non-light weapons
Other feat bonuses.
Now it's range and accuracy vs potential damage gain and +1 ac?
I'm just trying to understand how the feats and fighting styles benefit both of these players differently so I'm not calculating anything incorrectly.
Thanks in advance,
Dove.
Double Slice Pathfinder
You may fight with a one-handed weapon in your offhand as if it were a light weapon. In addition, you may use your Strength score instead of your Dexterity score for the purpose of qualifying for Two-Weapon Fighting and any feats with Two-Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite.