Ninnfc

Hi,
So just like the title says - since keystone takes priority in calculations and AoF converts 50% of physical dmg to fire but you don't deal any physical... does it mean herald of ash add 15% of this zero dmg or is it still based on 50% which should remain or just initial value ?
I was thinking about mixing Rightous fire with this new skill, blade vortex so this fire conversion looks appealing (since fire notes are a must in RF anyway) but 50% sounds not so great. So If I could get it up to 65 % (50% conversion + additional 15% gain) it would look more viable.

Posted by
Alex_Lied
on Nov 29, 2015, 2:21:39 PM

Percentage adds work on your original amount of phys damage so you're losing nothing in this setup.
You will need to complete physical->fire conversion to make AoF with physical spells viable, though.

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Posted by
on Nov 29, 2015, 2:44:31 PM

'since keystone takes priority in calculations'
They don't.
'does it mean herald of ash add 15% of this zero dmg or is it still based on 50% which should remain or just initial value ?'
Damage Based On is calculated before Conversion occurs. You will gain 15% of your base Physical Damage as Fire Damage even with AoF.
You're probably better off without Avatar of Fire, that 50% Base Damage loss will not be compensated by a couple Fire clusters..

Posted by
on Nov 29, 2015, 2:46:25 PM

That's what I was thinking. Ok so if I won't figure out any good way for converting almost 100%, going for it might not be the best idea. Thanks for all the answers :)

Last edited by Alex_Lied on Nov 29, 2015, 9:38:56 PM

Posted by
Alex_Lied
on Nov 29, 2015, 9:30:08 PM

its a spell so not bound by weapon, you could always use blackgleam quiver for the other 50% conversion if youre willing to give up the shield slot. it also opens up the option to go crit with deaths harp (crit multi) or if you dont plan on using crit, doomfletch for mana regen. so you sacrifice some defense but if youre building RF you should have some pretty decent life to spare.

Posted by
UnumLupus
on Dec 2, 2015, 10:47:16 PM

'

its a spell so not bound by weapon, you could always use blackgleam quiver for the other 50% conversion if youre willing to give up the shield slot. it also opens up the option to go crit with deaths harp (crit multi) or if you dont plan on using crit, doomfletch for mana regen. so you sacrifice some defense but if youre building RF you should have some pretty decent life to spare.

I was also thinking about it but with RF going without rise of pheonix shield would be a bit problematic. Maybe if I use blood dance boots and some +frenzy passives and on gear, I could get to around 6-7 charges and might be on similar level to having 8% fire res more, but it doesn't seems like very optimal build idea.

Posted by
Alex_Lied
on Dec 3, 2015, 12:59:28 PM

physical to lightning + cold to fire + call of the brotherhood + avatar of fire
and you should convert 100% physical to fire, and still play with rise of phoenix

Posted by
on Dec 3, 2015, 1:07:33 PM

'

physical to lightning + cold to fire + call of the brotherhood + avatar of fire
and you should convert 100% physical to fire, and still play with rise of phoenix

This looks really nice. Now I just need to do some tinkering with my tree to check whether using 2 gems for that make it reasonable. But even some rough calculation shows that there is some additional dmg gain around 30 % so it seems really good.
Thanks xD

Posted by
Alex_Lied
on Dec 3, 2015, 3:36:19 PM

yep damage is good but imo the setup is only viable on a 6L

Posted by
on Dec 3, 2015, 4:30:03 PM

So, just to verify. Does this means that to maximise damage of MI, you can boost fire damage and spell AOE?

Posted by
Shinteo
on Nov 6, 2012, 3:54:35 AM

'

So, just to verify. Does this means that to maximise damage of MI, you can boost fire damage and spell AOE?

No. For one, spell damage has no effect because it's not a spell.
For two, you need your minions you have stats to increase the damage, not you. You can stack fire damage increases until you're blue in the face and you'll deal lots of fire damage, but you minions won't.
If you can stack fire damage bonuses on your minions, that will increase the damage they deal when they explode.

Posted by
Mark_GGG
on Nov 6, 2012, 4:51:45 AM

'

'

'

Does the minion damage support gem augment the minion instability explosion?

Yep. Melee Physical Damage and Melee Damage on Full Life, too.

The explosions is not melee damage and is not affected by melee damage modifiers.
It is affected by your minion damage, and any bonuses to fire, elemental, or area damage your minions have.

Sigh. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that.

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Posted by
OnmyojiOmn
on Nov 6, 2012, 7:13:43 AM

'

'

So, just to verify. Does this means that to maximise damage of MI, you can boost fire damage and spell AOE?

No. For one, spell damage has no effect because it's not a spell.
For two, you need your minions you have stats to increase the damage, not you. You can stack fire damage increases until you're blue in the face and you'll deal lots of fire damage, but you minions won't.
If you can stack fire damage bonuses on your minions, that will increase the damage they deal when they explode.

Okay that makes sense, but what are our options for this? Would an aura be the only way to achieve this? Would doing something like equipping a support fire penetration/dmg gem on your minions increase their fire damage?
Thanks, and while I understand the way the mechanic works it is rather confusing. Honestly, just to make things easier to understand, minions should work with our stats, not just theirs. But hey thats just my 2 cents.

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Posted by
robproctor83
on Nov 6, 2012, 7:59:06 PM

'

Okay that makes sense, but what are our options for this? Would an aura be the only way to achieve this?

Support gems and stats on shields with Necromanctic Aegis.

'

robproctor83 wrote:

Would doing something like equipping a support fire penetration/dmg gem on your minions increase their fire damage?

Yes.

'

robproctor83 wrote:

Thanks, and while I understand the way the mechanic works it is rather confusing. Honestly, just to make things easier to understand, minions should work with our stats, not just theirs.

This would a) make much less sense, and be less intuitive to many people, and b) require a ground-up rewrite of how stats work in the game to be remotely feasible. You have stats. Minions, which are clearly separate things, have stats. Arbitrarily mixing the two is would be confusing and could not currently work in any sensible way.

Posted by
Mark_GGG
on Nov 7, 2012, 5:15:45 AM

So, vitrification and theorycraft no.2
If I want to add to the MI damage, I'd socket Added Fire Damage, Fire Penetration, Increased Minion Life, and Increased Area of Effect support gems?
That makes more sense now.

Posted by
Shinteo
on Nov 7, 2012, 6:51:15 AM

'

So, vitrification and theorycraft no.2
If I want to add to the MI damage, I'd socket Added Fire Damage, Fire Penetration, Increased Minion Life, and Increased Area of Effect support gems?
That makes more sense now.

You could...But I think you're better off the Faster Attacks + Minion damage + minion life(or iir)

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Posted by
RaistlinM
on Nov 7, 2012, 8:39:52 AM

Does that also mean that MI passive now also benefits fromiiq/iir support gems?

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Posted by
wizard_6
on Nov 7, 2012, 4:16:34 PM

'

Does that also mean that MI passive now also benefits fromiiq/iir support gems?

They should, Mark said so in the MI thread in the Witch forums.

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Posted by
RaistlinM
on Nov 7, 2012, 11:07:36 PM

'

So, vitrification and theorycraft no.2
If I want to add to the MI damage, I'd socket Added Fire Damage, Fire Penetration, Increased Minion Life, and Increased Area of Effect support gems?
That makes more sense now.

Added fire damage adds a % of physical damage as fire. The explosion has no physical damage, so that's probably not what you want.
Minion Damage support will increase it.

Posted by
Mark_GGG
on Nov 7, 2012, 11:50:29 PM